Weekend Open Thread

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."

–Dan Quayle 

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Weekend Open Thread

dustpuppy, that's offensive to me. I'll say it again – I want Republicans, conservatives, independents, libertarians, unaffiliateds, democrats, progressives, greens (not necessarily in that order) to feel OK about posting on here, without thinking that they're going to be insulted, told that they're insane or addicts or should be imprisoned for their ideas, or whatever.  I know I can't post my ideas on their blogs, because I've tried, and been shut down, deleted, ridiculed, and threatened.

I want people of all political affiliations to be able to put their claims out, and, hopefully, back them up with facts and evidence so we can have a substantive argument. Granted, usually, conservatives don't really have the facts to back stuff up, but that's what I want.

This is a comfortable place to post for progressives.  Usually people aren't ridiculed, unless they're ridiculous. I wish that it was comfortable  for reasonable conservatives to post reasonable arguments and try to back it up.

All that is to say that, though I often disagree with David T808, I think he's correct in wanting more diversity of opinions on here.

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Weekend Open Thread

"In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be wrong."

–Abraham Lincoln 

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Weekend Open Thread

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."

–Albert Einstein 

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Thanksgiving Weekend Open Thread

"Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others."

–Cicero

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Weekend Open Thread

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made."

–Groucho Marx

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Weekend Open Thread

Well, yeah. What I'm getting at is how much of our political change now happens in "off-year" elections, reflectd by 16 million dollars.

The recalls, Amendment 66, tax law changes – all of this happens when most Americans aren't paying attention.  Which can lead to a "tyranny of the minority", mirroring what is happening in the US House of Representatives.  And, I think, to even more corporate takeover of government.

Issue committees have so much more flexibility than candidate committees. They can pop up, fund a $150K smear campaign (as  AFP-Colorado's "Free Colorado" campaign did against John Morse and Angela Giron"), then become inactive. Tax filings don't come out for a year, and can be laundered through other committees. Katherine Kennedy, at 2318 Curtis St, is the registered agent for over 40 conservative issue committees and 527s. Go to TRACER, do a registered agent search, put in Kennedy, and 47 results will come up, most of which will trace back to Katherine or Katie Kennedy at the Curtis St address.

The same thing happens if one does a search with "Nicolais" as registered agent. 6 lobbying "issue committees" come up, along with generalized campaign slush funds such as the Senate Majority Fund.

I guess that my point is that, absent a reversal of the Citizens United decision, we need to get better at tracking issue committee expenditures, because they are well on the way to determining our political futures.

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Weekend Open Thread

"Pride works frequently under a dense mask, and will often assume the garb of humility."

–Adam Clarke 

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Weekend Open Thread

Phill Kline is indefinitely suspended from practicing law

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/18/3065232/phill-kline-indefinitely-suspended.html#storylink=cpy

Citing “clear and convincing evidence” of professional misconduct, the Kansas Supreme Court on Friday indefinitely suspended the law license of former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline.

The court found that Kline violated 11 rules governing the professional conduct of attorneys during his tenure as the state’s highest law enforcement officer and while he served as Johnson County district attorney.

The disciplinary action that led to Friday’s order arose from Kline’s investigation of abortion clinics while he was attorney general, and from his handling of a grand jury proceeding while Johnson County’s district attorney.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/18/3065232/phill-kline-indefinitely-suspended.html#storylink=cpy

Citing “clear and convincing evidence” of professional misconduct, the Kansas Supreme Court on Friday indefinitely suspended the law license of former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline.

The court found that Kline violated 11 rules governing the professional conduct of attorneys during his tenure as the state’s highest law enforcement officer and while he served as Johnson County district attorney.

The disciplinary action that led to Friday’s order arose from Kline’s investigation of abortion clinics while he was attorney general, and from his handling of a grand jury proceeding while Johnson County’s district attorney.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/18/3065232/phill-kline-indefinitely-suspended.html#storylink=cpy

Citing “clear and convincing evidence” of professional misconduct, the Kansas Supreme Court on Friday indefinitely suspended the law license of former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline.

The court found that Kline violated 11 rules governing the professional conduct of attorneys during his tenure as the state’s highest law enforcement officer and while he served as Johnson County district attorney.

The disciplinary action that led to Friday’s order arose from Kline’s investigation of abortion clinics while he was attorney general, and from his handling of a grand jury proceeding while Johnson County’s district attorney.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/18/3065232/phill-kline-indefinitely-suspended.html#storylink=cpy

Citing “clear and convincing evidence” of professional misconduct, the Kansas Supreme Court on Friday indefinitely suspended the law license of former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline.

The court found that Kline violated 11 rules governing the professional conduct of attorneys during his tenure as the state’s highest law enforcement officer and while he served as Johnson County district attorney.

The disciplinary action that led to Friday’s order arose from Kline’s investigation of abortion clinics while he was attorney general, and from his handling of a grand jury proceeding while Johnson County’s district attorney…

Kline, now an assistant professor of law at Liberty University in Virginia, will have to wait three years if he wants to seek reinstatement of his Kansas law license, according to Kansas Supreme Court rules.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/18/3065232/phill-kline-indefinitely-suspended.html#storylink=cpy

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/18/3065232/phill-kline-indefinitely-suspended.html#storylink=cpy

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Presentació entrepreneurs weekend lleida 2013

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Weekend Open Thread

FINALLY, I saw Democrats, last night on TV, talk about numbers and strategies for 2014, instead of whinning about those "meanie republicans" and how national polls show that people hate the republicans in Congress more than they hate the democrats in Congress.  

This is what I heard:

1) First to recap, Chris Matthews pointed out that 232 Republicans came from districts that voted against Obama in 2012.  These republicans feel safe in voting for shut down; defunding Obama care; and refusing to lift the debt ceiling.  They say they were sent to Congress to represent their consitutients, they are absolutely correct. Matthews spelled out the problem.  He did not offer solutions.

2) Bill Clinton was on Pierce Morgan.  Clinton was lucid and specific.  He said:

   The problem with people in favor of gun control, is that they do not vote to support the representatives who do vote for gun control.  The NRA members and the people not in favor of gun control, ALWAYS vote to support the representatives who vote against gun control.  The strategy was two fold:  

-GOTV for gun control candidates

-Put gun control measures on the ballot…let the people decide….that way you are   going state wide and capture public sentiment for gun control measures. 

This am, Representative Isreal, who is the chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee was on MSNBC.  He was very encouraging.  He said that they have identified 52 Congressional Districts now held by Republicans that dems will target and think that the republicans are vulnerable.  How will they do it?

1) Use all the technological tools possible….mining for votes.

2) Campaign measure about the destructiveness of the current Republican House.

The only problem I see with "technological tools" is that the brilliant strategy that won the 2012 election for Obama was dependent on OFA.  OFA was promptly destroyed after the election and recreated as a 504…..a issue group that CAN NOT

endorse or support candidates.  I think this wins the prize for the stupidest political act since George McGovern said he supported Tomas Engleton (sp?) 100%. And where is the genius that ran OFA's mining for votes?  He is now working for Hillary Clinton.

The Colorado dems are still disorganized and I don't count Hickenlooper for any political talent at all.  He scheduled elective surgery the day before recall election day and then when speaking of the loss, said "Maybe I should have told the voters how important the gun legislation was."  You think?

I do predict that if the magazine legislation is amended or repealed, that Hick will sign the bill.

t

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Weekend Open Thread

"You see what power is–holding someone else's fear in your hand and showing it to them."

–Amy Tan

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Weekend Open Thread

"Stupidity has a knack of getting its way; as we should see if we were not always so much wrapped up in ourselves.?"

–Albert Camus, from The Plague

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Weekend Open Thread

(Promoted by Colorado Pols)

The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honor. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiques are belated, insincere, incomplete. Things have been far worse than we have been told, our administration more bloody and inefficient than the public knows. It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure. We are today not far from a disaster.

- T. E. Lawrence

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Labor Day Weekend Open Thread

The American Spectator has a puff piece online for the secessionists as well, likening our Governor to an abusive spouse:

"Hickenlooper plays the perfect abusive husband, promising to be better in the future."

And building up to a politically-nuanced quote by a man who will never warm the Governor's chair, Senator Greg Brophy.  He's publicly stating that he's not voting for it - but is encouraging his friends and neighbors to keep talking about 'it":

"Colorado is almost a perfect state. If we had a beach, it would be. We can feed ourselves. We have enough energy production to take care of our own needs. We have great restaurants, theater, and sports venues in the metro areas, and then we have the mountains. It’s a great state and we should keep it together if we can, with a governor who will represent the entire state. So, although I wouldn’t vote for secession, I’m encouraging my friends and neighbors to keep talking about it because we’ve tried everything else — everything the experts tell you you’re supposed to do with your elected officials — and still the governor ignored us. This is a natural consequence of a governor who acts as if he’s only representing Denver."

And, of course, what hit-piece on this politically useless movement would be complete without equating our Governor to a …. "wife beater"??

"He is the husband who beats his wife and then says “I promise it won’t happen again.”

This may be to date one of the most despicable descriptions of this movement with it's characterization of the mythical foes to their "rural values".  As for Brophy encouraging his 'friends and neighbors" to keep talking about "it" warrants a counter-point.

The face of the Yuma County movement has been a neighbor of the Senator.  A Weld County transplant.  An individual whose family re-loated to the sand hills of northern Yuma County in the 70's.  A good, honest, hard working family who have built their fortune on government policy and resources:  1) the family obtained water rights from the State of Colorado – and had access to rural electricity as a result of American taxpayer-subsidized program that allowed them to pull the aquifer water to the surface and water their crops.  They have been the recipient to millions of dollars in federal farm subsidies during this time – and their prudent and timely investments in ethanol plants – a market created by a federal biofuels mandate – has been a generous contributor to their bottom line.  They plan to be part of a second-phase of a wind farm proposed in northern Yuma County.  A development that will see the light of day because of state renewalbe portfolio standards. 

In reality, the bulk of eastern Colorado's agricultural communities are more affected by federal policy than those coming from Denver and the Colorado legislature.  With the exception of the recently-enacted SB-252 – the state doesn't have much input in their daily operations. And as I've discussed in this forum before, the renewable portfolio standards first implemented in 2004 have been a great deal for rural Colorado.  It has forced billions in investment in rural counties with those counties not lifting a finger for their new-found bounty of new tax baseand jobs. They have been the takers – not the makers. 

Rural values being attacked?  Is it a rural value to egnore the some 109,000 children living in childhood poverty that are right under your nose? Is it a rural value to live in a Congressional district [to date, all counties who are taking the secession vote to the ballot box are in CD4] to be the recipient of $3.5 billion in farm subsidies – monies derived from largely-urban tax payers – and think the largess won't be noticed?  Is it a rural value for the American taxpayer to underpin the financial sureity of their farm operations via the federally-insured crop insurance program and pretend John. Q. Public won't notice?

Don't get me wrong, I am an advocate of a federal farm system that provides a framework for a consistent supply of food.  But that doesn't happen in a vacuum.  It is a partnership between the American public and agriculture.  No longer we going to get away with saying "hey, we feed you so shut the hell up". 

It's time rural Colorado puts their big boy pants on and stop their damn whining and throwing this useless hissy-fit. End this hypocritical crusade.  We're better than this. When I see these same, priveleged white folk spend as much energy on living wages and childhood poverty as they do trying to make you turn a blind eye to their form of welfare while trying to convince you our Governor is the equivalent of a wife beater and they are being "attacked" – I'll know we're making progress.

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Weekend Open Thread

Where does the polarization come from? How do we get our politics moving again? 

Like most of you, I fondly remember the Republicans of yesteryear, who were in fact the Democrats of the years before the Civil rights movement.  I remember relatives and friends who were fiscal conservatives, war hawks, skeptics of social change, but yet who could sit down to dinner with my liberal parents, work on community projects, and craft compromising, sensible laws in councils.

So what the heck happened? In my opinion, money in politics happened. Citizens United happened. There is now zero incentive to compromise or craft sensible laws, and much incentive to remain polarized and "stuck".  All right, so that's one question. What happened to moderates and where did the polarization come from?

Now let's zoom down to a very narrow, tight focus. A microcosm of a microcosm of political discourse. This board. 

I have to say that I see just as much name calling and ad hominem ( to the person) attacks on this board as I see in the Huff post comments sections, which have now gotten so vicious that Huffpo is going to go to a "no anonymous comments" policy in an effort to shut down the trolls and get back to civil discourse. 

When someone calls Fladen an "asshat" or Moderatus an "idiot" or whatever, or from the other perspective, "libtard",  that would be an ad hominem attack. I've been told that I have no respect for truth, that I'm not trustworthy to teach their children, that I'm a drunk, that I should get my head out of my ass. Those are all from Huffpo comments, not this board.  It's satisfying, I guess, for venting political frustrations, but it's abusive and  just keeps people polarized.

I disagree with Fladen and Moderatus on almost every issue, but there are unexplored areas of agreement. 

I think it's important to keep in mind that there are much more extreme conservatives out there. To refresh your memory, check out the FB comments on Salzman's thread. Hell, just read Salzman's thread.  We have conservative people on this board who are willing to engage without insults, and what we have to do is insist on staying on the issues no matter what little straw men or red herrings or distracting questions they throw, so maybe eventually we can drill down and expose what the real areas of agreement and disagreement are.

I think it's worth doing.  But it may not be as fun in the short term as just calling someone a "libtard" or an "asshat" or a "f**ing troll" or whatever.

I get that part of the charm of this board is the "anything goes" mode. I like that the rabid conservative trolls are intimidated, and  haven't taken over to the extent that they have destroyed discourse, as they have on other boards. I guess that I'd just like people to look for areas of agreement before they trash the person. 

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Weekend Open Thread

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves."

–Confucius

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Weekend Open Thread

This means no fear! Cavalier! Renegade and steering clear!
A tournament, a tournament, a tournament of lies!
Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline!

–R.E.M., from It’s The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

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Weekend Open Thread

"To be ashamed of one's immorality: that is a step on the staircase at whose end one is also ashamed of one's morality."

–Friedrich Nietzsche

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4th of July Weekend Open Thread

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."

–George Orwell 

Full story: 4th of July Weekend Open Thread

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